The ADHD Working Parent Juggle Struggle
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the ADHD Impact podcast. I'm Becca Brighty, business psychologist and ADHD coach who received an ADHD diagnosis at the age of 34. I've since seized my professional training to understand how the ADHD brain functions and use that information to change the way I work. The purpose of this podcast is to help people to see how they can harness their ADHD brain so that they can make the impact in the world that they know that they can, and to help those. Working with ADHD is to create environments that help everyone thrive at work.
(00:34):
So today's guest is Shelly Farnham, who by profession is an AH-D-A-D-H-D should be able to say that ADHD and autism, a family mentor. And she supports parents to see the positive differences that they can make for their child or teen, even when they are struggling to access diagnosis or services. So to me, Shelly's someone who's played a big part in where I am today. So as well as my A DHD, I've got a light processing disorder called Erling Syndrome that Shelly screened me for. She actually also came and picked me up off the metro because at the time I had a so back and she didn't want me to miss my appointment, which was very kind. So she was the first person who told me, yes, you probably do have this thing called Erling syndrome, which I will create a link in the show notes where you can find out more information about that.
(01:21):
It's very common within the neurodivergent community, but it's also the best kept secret. But once you find out about it, it is a game changer. So she then gave me these filters for my computer, and when I first used them I was like, oh, I can read so fast and I've got so much energy. She also has answered lots of little questions and worries about for me via LinkedIn over the years, going through the whole diagnosis and questions I had around that. And then also my daughter, Lily constantly messaged in Shelly with just asking for opinions because Lily, who was only three, well she's young, so she's not diagnosed with anything, but she's definitely wired differently. And so when Lily was having a hard time adjusting some big changes that happened in our lives, we had a session, me and my husband had a session with Shelly, and that made a real real difference for our understanding of Lily. So, hi Shelly. Welcome to the A DH ADHD Impact Podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Thank you so much for having me. And yeah, it's been such a pleasure knowing you. It's my absolute privilege and pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
That's lovely. So the reason why I asked you to be a guest on the show is because of my experience of being a working parent of a child who's wired differently. So I just mentioned Lily then, and I don't know whether she has a specific condition, but I do know that she is wired differently. She's very sensitive to different senses. We did with a play therapist, a sensory profile, and she's got this very, sounds like very difficult combination of very affected by her senses, but also very sensory seeking. So she seeks all the stimulation, but then she at the same time is being overwhelmed by the stimulation. And so being her mum is an absolute gift. She's the most enthusiastic, cute, funny, talkative, curious child that I've ever met. And she's a hundred percent herself. I'm just like, wow, I wish I could still be like that. She's just, so within our family, we have a saying of which is, that's so Lily, as in that means, oh, she's just wild and wonderful and free. Oh, that's
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Amazing. I love that. Really gorgeous. And having met her, I can just definitely testify to the cute, she wouldn't talk to me, but she's very cute to look at curly hair. Gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, she's adorable. So there's so many wonderful things that go along with a child who's wired differently. But as a professional, something I'd never considered before I entered this whole world of neurodiversity is how careful I have to be with my work. Because if I work too much, that means I don't have enough time to be with her. And that's really important for keeping her regulated. She can't go to nursery more than three days a week, which is something that a lot of people would never have to consider is if I ever need to do anything, it's more than three days a week a family member would need to look after. And I couldn't do that two weeks in a row, for example. This is something that I don't ever hear being talked about the challenges of being a working parent to a neurodivergent child, and that is exactly what you spend your life doing. So I just wanted to give our listeners the benefit of your knowledge and your expertise that I was lucky to come across. So first of all, if you can just tell me a bit about yourself and why you set up your business complex connections.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Sure. So yeah, my business came out of my personal story. My son, who's now 18, is diagnosed a DHD and autistic. But there was a long time when we didn't know what the diagnosis was. So we saw the difficulties, we saw the anxiety. As a teacher, you would've thought I had some knowledge of neurodiversity and neurodivergence and I really didn't have a very good knowledge. So I didn't pick up on the fact that what he was going through at school was that no teacher or anybody ever said that to me. But when he got to be about nine or 10, and in Northumberland at the time we had middle school, he went to middle school and that was an absolute game changer for him. So the difference between primary school or first school as we had it there where there were one teacher, one classroom, one set of kind of expectations, and then he went to middle school and they had to change classrooms for subjects and he had to organise his bag, take the right clothes, et cetera, et cetera.
(05:43):
And for him, that wasn't absolute, honestly, I can literally say it was a disaster for him. He went from achieving really high academically to not achieving very well. He was all over the place. That organisation was just too much for him. And it was at that point that I kind of started going, I wonder if there's something else here. We'd always been told lack of concentration, lack of focus. I actually had him tested for dyslexia because they said that he was struggling with his writing and that kind of thing. Anyway, to cut a long story short from that time, it was a few years before we actually got the A DHD diagnosis, by which time he was struggling, a lot more high school was then more of a struggle, and then he got his autism diagnosis as well. So it's very much from my own personal experience of going through all of that with very little understanding, very little support, because this was kind of before the days of Facebook groups and all of that that we have now.
(06:42):
But I reached out in all kinds of places and couldn't find anywhere that I could go to talk to somebody about this. And it's not the kind of conversation you have on the playground with all the other moms and dads. There's a huge sense of overwhelm at times, isolation, guilt in some ways because you think it must be all down to your parenting. What are you doing wrong? And when we did get the diagnosis, because I had reached out, couldn't really find a lot of support, I kind of decided, right, I'm going on my own journey. I'm going to find out everything I can find out. And being a voracious learner, I love learning about new things. So I have learned everything that I could about A DHD and then obviously autism as well. And that understanding was a real game changer for me when I knew differently I could do differently.
(07:35):
So understanding that his behaviour was not naughty or avoidant or lazy or any of the other labels that we put on these children that he was really struggling in that situation. That made a massive difference for me. And as is typical in many families, I kind of did all of that learning. My husband was a bit more, no, we just have to the consequences and then that kind of thing, which is the way we were brought up. But bit by bit he could see the difference it made when I was responding differently to Daniel. And Daniel then was responding differently back again. It was just the dynamics changed completely. And we had lost a lot of connection with Daniel. I really felt very disconnected from him. There was a lot of conflict in our house that just kind of, I need you to do this. I need you to go there. Your homework isn't getting done. That caused conflict between Wayne and I. So there was a lot going on, a lot of disconnection. And when we bit by bit understood more did things differently, the dynamics changed and made a massive difference for us now. And I can honestly say I have a brilliant connection with Daniel now, even though he is 18 at the time when a lot of, he's very independent and independent thinker going off to uni now. But yeah, that connection has been the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And then definitely with my experience with Lily, that once you start acting differently to them, you see it from that different perspective of them not being difficult. There's some issue for them. Absolutely. And you don't always know what it is. I remember being in a park with Lily and she started coming over and that boy wants to play with me and she wouldn't get off a swing and stuff. And I think before I'd known about all this stuff, I would've thought she was being naughty and be like, well, if the boy wants to talk to you, you need to talk to him and you have to share the swing and stuff. Whereas as it was, I was thinking, there's something about this environment, and it was a Saturday, it was a sunny Saturday, it was really busy park. And I was like, do you want to go? And then she was like, yeah. And so she didn't
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Know. She justt have the language to tell you, but something was going on. And if you hadn't understood that, you wouldn't have picked up on that, which would've been a game changer because you more than likely would've said, go back, share whatever. And that would've probably led to her being really dysregulated than maybe you being upset. And so a whole different change of circumstances, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah. Once you tune into it, it's so amazing because that situation we just left and we went in and we had a lovely day and we went to the metro centre and went to Waam mama about from a memory, which was lovely. Instead of it turning into her having a meltdown, me getting really stressed out, having a meltdown, me thinking, why is she being so difficult? What am I doing wrong As a parent, it was like there's something in the environment that she does not like. Let's just remove ourselves. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Going about our nice lovely day together and we had a lovely time. So what a difference. Just that change in perspective is so helpful. And so in your experience, what would you say the main challenges are that parents of neurodivergent children come across that you wouldn't typically see in parents of neurotypical
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Children? I think going back to that whole thing of feeling, that guilt, I think there's a lot, you feel extra pressure, you also feel a lot of judgement from other people, from other parents. So it's that feeling of, well, everybody else seems to be managing, everybody else's child is doing what we think they should be doing. All the other children in the class are managing that on their own. Why isn't my child? What am I doing wrong? It's all that spiral around blaming yourself, feeling isolated because you don't really want to be talking about it to other parents. So you kind of do isolate yourself and also almost not knowing what to do about it. So I think it's a very easy spiral to get into. And I definitely did when I can remember going to the school gates and it was like, Mrs. Hanham, can I just have a word?
(11:33):
Oh, I was expecting it every time they came out. So I would hang back from other parents. I didn't involve myself in those things because you feel just a little bit embarrassed if I can think of it like that. And looking back, there's so many things I would do differently. So many ways I would explain to the teacher what was going on differently for Daniel. I wish I'd known it all back then when he was kind of year one, year two, year three. It went on such a long time before I had that understanding. That in itself gives you guilt. Well, as a parent, you feel guilty about everything, but that in itself brings up feelings of guilt. And very often with the parents that I talk to, that's a feeling that they had. I wish I'd known differently before. I wish I'd done differently.
(12:18):
And actually we have to let go of that guilt and we have to go. But now I do know differently and now I can do differently and it's never too late. There's always things that you can do differently. So I think for those parents as well, you talked about Lily going to nursery and having to plan your time a lot more carefully. I think that's really a big thing that possibly other parents don't have to think about. Not only time, but it's energy as well because you have to make sure that you are in a place where you can deal with those things and think clearly. I think when we are overwhelmed or stressed or tired, it's much more difficult for us to go, oh, I know what's going on here. We haven't got that curious approach. We tend to then revert to our stress responses. We, so we have to be able to manage our energy and that's a lot easier said than done, but it's really important that we are in that state and in that place of regulation ourselves so that we can be curious and make good choices and do what's best for our child in that situation and not be triggered by it ourselves. So I think that's a big thing that isn't necessarily spoken about with parents, but they feel that pressure for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah. And so you're talking about regulation there. One of the eight handed layers that often plays out in these situations, is that the heritability, is that the right word? Yes, of neurodivergence. So it's that often. So I think it's up to 50% chance that if you have a DHD, your child will. So you're looking at probably at least half of these children are then being parented by parents with a DHD or some other form of neurodivergence. Emotional dysregulation is a massive aspect of A DHD. So you've got this more difficult dysregulated child being parented by a parent who struggles with regulation. I don't even know what my question is. I'm just like, can you talk to that about that experience and how you see that play out?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Absolutely. You're absolutely right. It's just another layer. And I can speak from personal experience. I wasn't diagnosed with my A DHD until a year and a half ago. So the whole way through Daniel's childhood, I was an A DHD trying to parent an A DHD autistic child. And again, that adds to those layers because I would berate myself for not able to be very consistent with things we would come up with. In the times when I believed that reward charts and that were helpful, we would come up with the most amazing schemes and I couldn't keep it going and neither could Daniel. And I blamed myself for that a lot. So that consistency was a big thing. Exactly like you say, emotional regulation, one of those executive functions which we know are affected by A DHD and autism. So emotional regulation is a difficult one, and I tend not to be a kind of fight or flight, well flight to a degree, but I tend to be a freeze person.
(15:25):
So I very much go into my shell when I feel overwhelmed, want to disconnect from other people, don't want to interact. That's not particularly helpful when you've got a child who's struggling. So for me, that is still an ongoing battle to make sure that I don't go into my kind of default response when I'm stressed and I'm able to keep that connection going with Daniel because at the end of the day, we are the adults and they're the children and we are the ones who set that tone in the home. We are the ones that kind of put that ethos out of how things are going to be. And if we don't do it in that way, that embraces connection and nurtures connection, it's very difficult for our children to do that. So yeah, there is a lot of onus on us and I think that's a really just that added layer, like you say, of difficulty.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
And so how do you do that? What do you teach parents? How do they,
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Shall I tell you what I teach parents and then what I do?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, let's get the inside scoop. So what do teachers tell and what do you actually do actually, what do you
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Do? I mean, for me, I say to parents, in order to get that regulation, you need self-care. And that's not a word that I use lightly because self-care brings up images of bubble bars and spa days and things which are inaccessible to most of us. Most of the time. It's finding those little things that keep us regulated, whether that be a five minute cup of coffee in the garden in the morning, whether that be three deep breaths behind the door before you actually interact with your child. But you need, and I think a big part of that regulation is support for parents as well. They need to feel seen and heard and not experience that isolation and overwhelm. And I think that's why it's so important to have these conversations. If we can talk to other parents and not feel like we are the only one experiencing this and we're not the only one and then we're not the worst parents in the world, it brings so much comfort and so much gives you that resilience to go, okay, this isn't all on me.
(17:27):
I can do things differently here. And that's all you need. You need that hope of I can do it differently. So I think that regulation for parents comes from regular regulation, keeping going with what regulates you, but also having a few little tools that you can use in the moment because it or not you are going to be triggered by your child. And in that moment you've got to be able to step back, take those deep breaths and reconsider how you're going to approach it. If we react with our stress response, we've talked already about how that just does not help the situation. And I think one thing to say straight away is there is absolutely no way on earth that any of us are never going to react like that. We are going to do it, we're going to be impatient or say something that we later wish that we hadn't.
(18:14):
That's a given. But there's always, when you've got that connection, there's an opportunity to go back to your child and make that repair and that models to your child that life isn't perfect and we can go back on things and we can make things different. So I think for parents, that regulation is huge. As a typical A DHD, I'm not very good at self-care. So making that time and trying to build a business and all of that kind of thing, it's another layer of difficulty because I would have to say one of my executive functions that's not the strongest is my timekeeping. So things take me much longer than I anticipate. I struggle to kind of plan and prioritise that kind of thing. So I always am running out of time in one way or another, and that's not very good for regulation. But I think I've learned to definitely as the years have gone on, you let go of some of the stuff and you maintain, if I just keep it in my mind, just stay connected, that's it. And I almost filter everything through that. Is this going to maintain and build connection or is it going to damage connection? And if I do that, then I can almost sort the important from the non-important things and that helps me to maintain some regulation and connection with Daniel. So yeah, working on the self-care,
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I think self-care is a tricky one. You do, it doesn't bring about these images of baths with glasses of wine or reading a book on a beach or whatever it is. But to me now pre-diagnosis me I harder, I try, I need to try harder, I need to try harder. Post-diagnosis me is like if I'm struggling with something, I need to do less. It's like the opposite. So there's a cent diffuser there for me, that's just a little thing. I never thought I would be a person who thought a scent diffuser was an essential item to take to work, but it just keeps me in my body. I take a deep breath, smell, the lovely relaxing scent, and it is
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Lovely, and it
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Just relaxes you. So you can find if you can pay attention to the little things and notice, and people have said this to me for years, like, oh, you need to slow down or you think too much. And I was just like, no, no, no, I need to try harder. I need to try harder. I need to do
Speaker 2 (20:31):
More. Oh, me too. Exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
But then for me it's actually the opposite. Opposite is what has made the massive difference how productive I am and how effective I am and how well I'm doing in my business is doing less. It's like it's mind blowing. And so I know with Lily, if I'm too stressed, she gets more stressed. And so it's just this cycle. So me and my husband, based on the things we've learned from you and then the play therapist, we're trying to take this different approach and we went to these topics seem like a jumble up, but that's just the way of my brain. But we went to this thing ages ago called meditating with horses, and it's really cool because horses pick up really easily on human emotions. So if you are got heightened emotion, they pick up on it and they're stressy. So then the whole thing is you've got to really calm yourself down and then the horse mirrors once you calm down that you can stroke the horse, the horse will lie down with you and stuff once you are calm, but it won't if you are stressy as a person who's scared of large animals, I was obviously the horse were just panicking so much when it was with me to
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Pick up on your vibes. That's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So now when we talk about Lily, we're like, oh, she's like those horses where when we're stressed she's like the stressy horse. But then if we can calm down, then she calms down with us,
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Us. Oh, that's such a good image. I love it.
(22:02):
I think I'm going to mention that if you don't mind, because when I talk to parents often we talk about that and I think there's COEs escalation as well. So literally your child is picking up on your nervous system. I mean that's based on neuroscience, isn't it? We see what's happening in other people's faces, eyes, the movements that their body's making, what that signal is that their nervous system is giving off. And our children absolutely pick up on that. Obviously we pick up on theirs as well, but we've got to be regulated enough to be able to counterbalance that and go, okay, I can see they're really stressed. Let me not get that way me. And I think it's just, I loved what you talked about with those mindful moments. I think it is sometimes just that literally just grounding yourself, smelling something, feeling your breath or something small like that. I'm learning more and more probably as a person who is disconnected from her body forever, learning the importance of just having that mind body connection and feeling it in your body and the regulation that can bring is absolutely huge.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, it's really amazing. I've always been a person of like, yeah, I don't have time for meditating and being breathing slowly. I need to do everything really quick, but now I'm actually seeing the value of that. The value. I still can't meditate, but I can go on a meditation walk or something like that. So in terms of the co-regulation and the picking up on feelings of other people, I know that's something that we just do as human beings, but Lily seems insanely perceptive to other people's emotions. Even when I'll be in a bit of something sad will have happened for me and she'll come to me and say, oh mommy, you sad and give me a cuddle. And I'm like, I've been in the room for 30 seconds. How do you know this? You're three years old. Do a DHD children have that more?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I definitely think there's that hypersensitivity. I think it goes with those sensory sensitivities there is that hypersensitivity now, I guess there's lots of research that maybe says that's how you're born. Is it because they've maybe had to kind of live with a little bit more threat as their brain has developed because they are? I can definitely say Daniel was exactly the same. And you know how you always hear, oh, autistic children don't pick up on things around them. He absolutely would do exactly the same and he'd come to me and say, I mean he was maybe seven or eight at the time. Is everything okay? And something wasn't okay, but I felt like I was getting on with things and doing things. And I'd say, yeah, yeah, everything's fine. He'd say, are you sure? Because you don't seem okay. That blew my mind because he would pick up on that where his neurotypical sister, she never ever said anything like that to me.
(24:49):
So in my mind he is that hypersensitive, whether it was, I think that the threat possibly had something because obviously by the time he was that age, he had seen that certain things with him caused distress for me. So whether it was that learned behaviour, who knows. But I definitely think there's a hypersensitivity in a lot of neurodivergent people and I think we take on a lot of emotions from other people. The whole thing of being drained when you've been in a crowd or having to have more time on your own to rest or whatever. I think it's all linked to that. I think that we definitely do pick up on those things more what it is with the brain structure. Exactly. I don't know, but I definitely feel that that is something,
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I guess it makes sense if you think of the fact that a DH people in general are just more sensitive to things. So to all the senses, if you're just more sensitive to the world, why wouldn't you be more sensitive to emotions?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
To emotions? Absolutely. It makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And actually I learned something on this course I'm doing about, so the thing about how people with a DH, well neuro divergent people will have an interest based wiring where they'll do something that's interesting, whereas neurotypical people have an I importance based wiring like this is important, so I'm going to do it. And on the course they taught me that emotion is interesting, it makes sense, I'm just working this all through. It makes sense that if you've got an interest based wiring as someone with a DHD, I don't know how it shows up in different other conditions, but if you are wired for interest, emotions are interesting, then you would pick up on them.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
That really makes sense, doesn't it? An I importance space with maybe more of a neurotypical brain. It's almost more on the what makes progress, what do I need to do, what do I need to achieve than focusing on those other things. So yeah, that does make sense, doesn't it? I've never heard it described exactly like that and it's a really good description. So yeah,
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah. So I often give the example of, so a neurotypical person will walk into the hall where the laundry basket is and see the laundry basket overflow and I think I need to wash the laundry. Then they'll go and wash the laundry. The A DHD person will say, oh, the laundry's overflowing. I need to do that. Oh, I could put some pictures up here. I'll go into the garage, I'll get the things. And then they'll come back and they're like, oh, I'm going to have a snack. And at the end of the day, the laundry's not done. There's three pictures up upon the wall and all the tools are out of the shed and the laundry
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Stall and
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Or further just downstairs in the hall. And it's because that the importance of something isn't what is going to make you do it. It's actually interesting to you in that moment and trying to stay on track what actually is important, hence
Speaker 2 (27:36):
My time keeping difficulties. You're just
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Distracted by all these interesting things, all those things. So my emotion being interest-based, that all makes actually a lot of sense now you've explained it like that. So talking about the difficulties with having a DHD children and working and being conscious about how much you work and how much you're with them, there are going to be times in everyone's life. So there's times in my life where I do have to work more than three days a week and there is no one else around. So Lily does end up very occasionally like is it worth it for her us to send her more days? But there are times where she's not with us as much as she would like. What can people do in those times when they know that's going to happen to reduce the negative impact on their children?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'm a big fan of collaboration now with a 3-year-old that looks very different to a 10-year-old or a 15-year-old. But I think there is collaboration to be had with every single child and I think if we can work it out with them that they are involved in it. So for instance, if you knew you were going to have to work more, having a little conversation around it, I think a lot of our child's reactions to things in the environment come when they're unprepared for them and it's out of the blue and it's not something that's normal and regular and predictable. We know our brain responds to that. I think the more we can prepare them for things, the more we can have that little conversation with them, maybe work something around it and say, I know that's difficult for you, but what could we do on that day that might make it easier.
(29:15):
Now again, for a three-year-old, are they going to be able to tell you that? Possibly not. But you may know that what really helps them is if you go straight to the park from nursery, let's say, so you make a special effort on that day to go, now I know that today's an extra day of nursery, we're going to go to the park straight away after nursery so that by the time you get home her nervous system's a bit more regulated and there's less chance that there's going to be dysregulation. I think that we can't ever have this perfect ideal thing and I don't think it would actually help our children to have that. I really do think that yes, we are trying to meet their needs. We are trying to be understanding, but at the same time we're trying to help them grow that little bit and we grow and we go outside of our comfort zone a little bit.
(30:01):
We so that little extension of the comfort zone, I'm not saying a huge massive leap where we know there's going to be difficulties, but that little bit of growth all the time is really important. If we know that our child prefers staying in their bedroom, if it's an older child, we can try and work with them, collaborate with them and say, how can we get where can we go for dinner? Or can we do this or could we stay there a little bit longer? Just something that extends their comfort zone, that little bit by little bit done in collaboration with us, done with a lot of understanding and compassion and support. I think they can grow because we don't want them to be in their bedroom and not want to go anywhere ever. So it is just that little bit of pushing and it's difficult sometimes because as a parent all you want to do is you want to meet their needs and you want to cater to what works for them, but little bit by little bit if you can just extend their comfort zone, I think that's really important.
(30:56):
So I think it's an opportunity if you have to do something different, it's an opportunity for you to learn, for them to learn, but do it with them. Don't just spring it on them. Don't just say, oh, by the way, next week you're there four days, not three days. Do it bit by bit. Get them prepared for it so it feels more familiar, it feels less confrontational and they can then get their heads around it and be prepared for the fact that it could be really difficult for them and that's okay. And don't, I think sometimes parents don't want to see their children's emotions and I think part of being a parent is saying, it's okay if you have big emotions, I'm here for you for that. And I mean none of us want to see a big meltdown or lots of tears or anything, but it's almost being able to hold that space for your child when that happens and actually, do you know what? You'll be okay. You'll get through it and you can manage these big emotions. It's not that we don't ever want to see them. So I think that's important as well.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I love that as a reframe. It's taken this negative thing of like, oh, I've got to work extra. And they're going to be really upset about it into a positive thing of, okay, this isn't ideal on a weekly basis, but I'm actually going to be teaching you some new skills. If these big emotions come out, you're going to learn about those big emotions and we can handle them together. That's so much more positive way of looking at it than this guilt of like, oh, I'm working extra. And especially when you're self-employed, I choose how much I work, no one's making me do anything. So there is sometimes guilt that goes along with that. So I love that of it's an opportunity for them to learn skills that they're going to need. You can't just, as an adult, you have to have all those
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Skills and you have to go your comfort zone at times and you have to feel big emotions, isn't it? I think a lot of mental health difficul are people avoiding those big emotions. So helping our children go, it's okay if you feel like that. I can handle this. I can be there for you and you'll get through the other side. And I think that's something I'm learning now more than I did three or five years ago. As I say, somebody who's been quite disconnected from their body and their emotions, it's learning that we need to feel them. If we don't feel them, they stay in there somewhere and they're going to come out at some point. So best we feel them and we help our children feel them too.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Absolutely. That's something that definitely Lily is helping me because as a parent I am like, all emotions are fine. If you're happy, if you're sad, if you're angry, it's how you express them. That is how it matters. But all emotions are fine. But I wasn't necessarily raised like that. I don't think most people were. It was like being happy is good, being sad is bad, being angry is very unacceptable. Do
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Not feel angry. Yeah,
Speaker 1 (33:40):
Exactly. And seeing that in her and being like that as a parent is helping me be like that for myself. Yes, absolutely. So with Nicola, we were talking about my last guest and the show that you also know Nicola, we were talking about the strengths that we see in A DHD is the strengths that they bring into the workplace. How do you see that parenting neurodivergent children, what strengths does that give to parents that they can then take into the workplace?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
I think for parents, I think your journey with your child, if you're willing to embrace those difficulties and go along with it, I think it makes you more self-aware. So along with that, if you can let go of the guilt, you can see the strengths you do have to have on that daily basis. So that more awareness, that curiosity, that willingness to change your perspective. Sometimes as the adults we kind of think, oh, we should be in control. We should know what we are doing. We should have mastered all of this. And I think a big strength is actually being able to go, do you know what? I'm learning this as I'm going along. It's not likely that you've got a whole lot of experience in this area. So you are literally learning with your child and giving yourself that grace and that compassion to actually go, I'm going to mess up at times that's a given, but let me take my strengths from it.
(35:04):
I was really able to be regulated in that situation and small things as well, celebrating in that situation where last week that would've really made me upset. I was able to hold that space for my child or I was able to get through the morning and I didn't have to raise my voice. I was able to do it in a more collaborative way, celebrating those small, small things and being aware of those strengths that you do bring and modelling those for your child. And to me, one of the strengths that parents can show their neurodivergent children is very much that thing of repair. I might not get it right the first time. I might not get it right the 10th time, but that's okay. I can come back and we can do it again. And to me, there's not enough of that in our world where children actually know it's okay to mess up and there is a way that there is option B.
(35:51):
There's always a different thing you can do. So having a parent going, do you know what? I didn't speak to you the way I wish I had. Can you help me understand more so I can do it differently? Or maybe the next time you could help me to do that in a different way. I think it's just such an important thing that is undervalued and we don't have to get it right all the time and we don't have to be that, well, there's no such thing, but we don't have to be any kind of specific parent. We can do it in a way that works for our family and let go of other people's judgments and kind of go, that might work for their family. That's not working for my family. I'm going to do it differently. And as a person who placed a lot of value on what other people thought for many, many years, I've realised how damaging that can be because my child might need longer on technology and that's one hour a day or whatever they recommend.
(36:44):
It puts all sorts of pressure on you. For my child, that is a way of getting their regulation back after being at school for six hours, I'm going to let them have that regulation for one family, we have to all eat together at the table, let go of that and do what works for you on that night. As long as it maintains connection, at the end of the day, do what works for you. And I think if parents can have that awareness of themselves, they will see those strengths come out, that ability to make their child feel seen, heard and valued. What a strength that is if you can do that.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I'm just writing seen, heard, valued, love that. So yes. And I'm thinking about it from a workplace perspective of why are you then, because I think a lot of the time we see these things as negatives, like, oh, they've got a neuro divergent child, they might have to be off more. Or the child needs this, that and the other. So if we're looking at the strengths that you actually bringing back to the workplace, even if we think of it from a manager, the ability to make people feel seen, heard, valued, the things you just talked about then about being compassionate, having that self-awareness, having humility to apologise except that you're getting wrong, might get things wrong. Let go of judgement . That sounds like a great recipe for a manager or a colleague. So these things that we think we learn from either having these conditions ourself and having to show ourselves those things or try or we're doing it for children, I think these can translate into amazing skills to take back into the workforce.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I think they're just general interpersonal skills, aren't they? And nothing better than when you've got a manager who goes, I didn't get that right. Can we think about that again? Or what's your thoughts on this? It is all those kind of skills that we would like to see in the workplace for sure. And I think if you have that change in awareness for your child, I think you have that change in awareness for everybody around you. You're much less judgmental then of people. So if you're managing people or if you've got colleagues that are struggling, you're going to pick up on that a lot better. I think it's just when you change your perspective in one area, it filters through to everything else.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Absolutely. Yeah. And then to the more negative side sometimes. And I think, and you've touched on this, it can feel lonely and no one understands what you go through as a parent of a neurodivergent child. And even though lily struggles and not, I dunno, you can't rate them, but they're not massive. She's quite emotional. She gets overwhelmed. How do you think parenting and a DHD child might hold someone back in their career?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think what happens in your family never goes out of your head. So when you go to work in the morning, what's happened that morning? If it's been a difficult kind of thing to get your child to go into school, those feelings stay with you. I can remember I was working in a school during the worst times with Daniel and I would go into school feeling absolutely awful. I can literally remember standing at the photocopier trying to get something done and thinking, how am I going to get through this day because I've put my child into a place that I don't want to be as in school, et cetera. And I think that's really, really, really tough. So I think your personal life can, or your family difficulties can take over headspace or energy that you might've been able to put into your work. There is the thing of having to ask for time off.
(40:25):
If you have to go for appointments or assessments or access services, you definitely, when you get an appointment through, you definitely move mountains to get to that appointment, otherwise you're going to miss out on that slot. So you really have to, and sometimes you do feel awkward going to your boss and saying, I'm really sorry, but can I have this time off? But it is so important to you have to do it. I think as well, a lot of parents may not be able to work as many hours as in be full-time. So there is that financial difficulty that they might experience because they can't work as many hours as another parent. They may have to be on call if their child needs to leave school or they may definitely have to be there for them in the afternoon. They might not be able to go to an afterschool place or go home with somebody else.
(41:12):
They might need to be the person there for them. So I think there's all sorts of ways that it can feel negative for that parent, which of course can add to those feelings, those real difficult feelings of I'm having to do this because of my child. It's that constant juggling act. That's often what I hear from parents. It feels like such a juggle. I'm supposed to be at work, but I'm thinking of my child or I'm waiting for a phone call from someone, or I'm worried that school's going to ring and I'm going to have to leave. So there's just that constant juggling act. I think that is a heavy weight to bear at times for these parents.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
And how do you see, if you were to give some advice to people employing people who are looking after a neurodivergent child or managing someone, what would your number one piece of advice be to those employers or those managers?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Ask them what they need. Ask them what would be supportive for them. And I know there is going to be a tiny fraction of people who may take advantage of it. The majority of people are not going to, if you are flexible and you give them what they need, they'll give you that back a hundred times over. And I know working in the school, I had a fabulous head teacher who every time I say it, I'm really sorry, but I have an appointment I'm going to have to go to. She was like, go, go. But that made me go, I need to work extra hard in here. I want to give back. I want to do my best when I'm at work. And on certain days I could stay a little bit later or do something a little bit different because I so appreciated that flexibility.
(42:47):
I was willing to do what I needed to do to do the best that I could in that work. And I think most people would be like that. I don't think there's many people that would take advantage of that. So if you're managing someone, give them that time that they need. Let them tell you what they need and I think you will gain a lot of flexibility and whatever they can give back because of that, I think it'll mean the world to them. When you have that flexibility for your family that you need, I think you're willing to give back many times over.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. And what about to the parents themselves? What would you say your number one tip is for managing that juggle, making the impact in the workplace, in your career, in your business that you want to, whilst at the same time being the parent that you want to
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Be? My tip that I would say off the top of my head would be look after yourself. And I think that's the most difficult thing to do as well, because when you're juggling and you're juggling work and children and all the rest of it, but I think like we've talked about before, find those tiny moments no matter how tiny they are, something for you, something that keeps you going so that you're able to be the person at work that you want to be and the person at home that you want to be. And another thing I would say is ask for help. Don't be afraid to reach out and ask for help. It can be really difficult. And I know often when I have initial conversations with people, you can feel their embarrassment or I dunno what it is, but it's just such a difficult thing to tell other people how much you're struggling. But there's many other people in that position. So reach out for help, get support for yourself so that you can be there for your child, don't like. You have to do it all alone and do it all. Do what you can do to make it work.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Okay, that sounds great. So sadly, that's all we've got time for today. So finally, if people want to know more about the kinds of things we've been talking about today, where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (44:51):
So we are complex connections, and that's with double NEX in the connections. I always have to say that that confuses people. Our website is complex connections. We're on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. People are welcome to contact me, any of those places. I always, I will never, ever be a hard sellers to what we have or anything like that. I like to have an initial conversation and if we are not the right place to support you, hopefully I know somewhere else that would offer you some support. But I think just reach out, just speak to other people going through similar things and hopefully that would be support in itself even without anything else. But hopefully we can offer people some understanding of what's actually going on and ways to deal with that and work through it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Okay, that's great. So I'll put those, you send me them, I'll put the links into the show notes for people. Thank you. So if they can hunt you out, because like I said, you may made such a big difference to me. So thank you for making a big difference to me. But also thank you for being on the podcast
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Today. Thank you so much for having me. It's be in a lovely chat.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Speak soon. Bye bye. Thanks for listening. If you want more information around this topic or details on the ways I support individuals in the workplace and help businesses to be more ADHD friendly, please go to adhdimpact.com or follow me, Becca Brighty on LinkedIn.
In this episode of The ADHD Impact podcast 💡, Shelley Farnham and I chat about all things ADHD parenting while juggling work 📚💼.
Shelley is the Founder of Complex Connexions 🌟 and an Autism and ADHD mentor for parents and young people 👦👧.
Shelley's work is informed by her personal experience with ADHD, her background as a teacher 📚👩🏫, SEN support, and her journey as a parent to a young person with ADHD and Autism 👪.
We discuss how having a child wired differently can impact a parent's career and the considerations parents face, along with how employers can support neurodivergent children 🤝.
We delve into Shelley's journey of discovering her son's neurodivergence and how that understanding transformed their relationship ❤️.
We reflect on the experience of parenting a neurodivergent child and the additional factors parents must consider when raising a child who is wired differently 🤔.
We delve into Shelley's journey of discovering her son's neurodivergence and how that understanding transformed their relationship ❤️.
